He was the architect of sports betting legislation in New Jersey, the lawmaker who almost single-handedly toppled the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act of 1992, which prohibited sports betting in most U.S. states.
Former New Jersey Senator Ray Lesniak might be considered the founding father of the nation’s growing sports betting industry. Who better to ask about the future of the industry, which was brought to a standstill in March by the coronavirus outbreak?
Author of the book Beating the Odds: The Epic Battle that Brought Legal Sports Betting Across America, Lesniak was named to the 2020 Sports Betting Hall of Fame, and would have been inducted at the Betting on Sports America trade show in April. Of course, that show, like everything else, was cancelled.
Lesniak is also the founder of the Lesniak Institute for American Leadership, with a goal to teach “action-driven advocacy” to the next generation of U.S. leaders. It is headquartered at Kean University in Union, New Jersey.
He spoke to GGB News by phone on Wednesday.
GGB News: Senator, you were pretty pivotal in getting PASPA overturned in 2018.
Lesniak: I was more than pivotal in overturning PASPA. I started it on my own, I dragged (former Governor Chris) Christie to get behind it, and we got it done.
It’s not easy to drag Christie. So, if you carried the flag, why did Christie get into the Sports Betting Hall of Fame before you?
Because he was governor, governors supersede senators, and his name was on the case. But they rectified that wrong this year.
Before Covid-19, sports betting was doing great guns in New Jersey and expanding. Then March Madness closed down, pro sports were shelved and we’re betting on darts. How shocking was that for you?
Shocking? For a Rutgers fan, it was a lot more than shocking. Rutgers hadn’t been in the NCAA for 25-plus years, and we were on our way to the first game of the Big 10 tournament. I had a houseful of friends to root them to victory, the team was warming up, and all of a sudden, the guys walked off the court. And we were like, “What’s going on?”
What a disappointment for us. I can’t imagine what a disappointment it was for the team.
How do you think the sports betting industry will revive?
Sports betting will come back with a vengeance, particularly online. People may not be able to go into the stands, but they can watch TV and have the added boost of betting a few dollars.
Unfortunately, a lot of states haven’t chosen to offer online sports betting, which mystifies me—New York especially.
It’s sure a good thing for New Jersey, but why has Governor Cuomo consistently opposed mobile sports betting?
I haven’t been able to figure it out. Before sports shut down, there were more New York license plates at the Meadowlands racetrack than New Jersey.
Cuomo missed the boat, deriding New Jersey sports betting revenue by saying it amounted to a “rounding error” in his state budget. That rounding error—a few hundred million dollars in the treasury every year—could fund a lot of good programs in New York.
But the driving force for me to get legalized sports betting in New Jersey wasn’t the revenue. It was the fact that Atlantic City casinos were closing, that 15,000 jobs had been lost. And I have no doubt that our racetracks would have closed in a few years, too, without sports betting.
Governor Cuomo is ignoring the fact that this is also a job creator. I’ve been proven accurate, because three casinos have opened in Atlantic City since we had sports betting. Folks who go to Atlantic City for sports betting will also go for entertainment, dining and to stay the weekend.
Will the economic pain of Covid-19 cause sports betting to expand, with more states coming on board, if only for the potential revenue?
You know, it certainly should, but I expected it would from the get-go, and I was wrong. I’ve been surprised that more states haven’t grabbed onto it. But yes, I do believe the desire for additional revenue will hasten the growth of sports betting throughout America.
Yet you always hear people say that sports betting isn’t a cash cow. Why?
Everyone who says that is ignoring the indirect aspect of sports betting: the income taxes it raised from the 15,000 jobs it created, the corporate taxes the corporations are paying. They’re ignoring the human factor: jobs that have been brought back that were lost.
Will the fact that we can’t attend for a while have an impact on betting? Or will people just be happy to have good old U.S. sports back?
I think it’ll enhance betting. People are looking for a little extra vig on their excitement that they can’t get in the stands.
Could this long time-out negatively affect the athletes’ performance? You know what they say: Use it or lose it.
Well, two things. First, they’re young for the most part, and they’re world-class super athletes. Then, everybody has been in the same boat, so I don’t expect it to have much of a detrimental effect on the games.
I remember when Reggie Jackson retired from baseball. Larry King interviewed him and asked, “They say the legs go first when you’re an athlete. Is that what happened to you?” Reggie said, “No, it’s nothing to do with my physical ability, it’s my desire. I used to do 500 sit-ups a day. I still can do 500 sit-ups a day. I just don’t want to.”
For the most part, these are professional athletes with their livelihoods on the line. The college athletes are youngsters, so their desire certainly hasn’t waned in any way. I’m sure they’re training.
One of the goals of legal sports betting was to eliminate illegal offshore betting. That hasn’t happened to the extent that the American Gaming Association wanted. Why not?
A couple of reasons. First of all, we’ll give thanks to Justice Department for putting the Wire Act into play. It’s also because, at least originally and to a certain extent still, the banks and credit card companies were reluctant to enable the use of credit for gaming.
There will always be illegal activities in every single aspect of life, but the FBI estimates the illegal offshore market is worth $300 billion to $500 billion yearly. Making it legal in the U.S. certainly has put a damper on it. Given the option, I think most people would prefer to do something legally rather than illegally.
Do you think former New Jersey Senator Bill Bradley, a former NBA player, and other longstanding opponents of sports betting have reconsidered their opposition?
I haven’t heard anything from them, but the bigger question is, has Sheldon Adelson reconsidered his position on internet gaming? I think Adelson’s making a bad judgment there, looking at it as hurting his brick-and-mortar business. It’s been the exact opposite in Atlantic City.
It was my goal to make New Jersey the hub of internet gaming, the Silicon Valley, if you will, of internet gaming, and advance our ability to compact with other states to expand their operations, so they don’t have to recreate the infrastructure and regulatory scheme we’ve already created. As long as Adelson keeps that in limbo, it will continue to cast a cloud over internet gaming.
I don’t know whether those senators and sports figures have reconsidered their views, and it doesn’t matter anymore, because sports betting is here in America, and it’s here to stay.
Do you still support betting on college teams, which was left out of the New Jersey bill? Is that something that can be revisited?
(Former New Jersey Senator) Dick Codey and the NCAA were putting a lot of pressure on legislators to not include college sports in New Jersey’s sports betting legislation, and it was a political decision I made to get it passed and the referendum passed for voters to support.
Sure, it can be revisited, but right now the legislature is focusing on other things. (Betting on collegiate sports) would not be a huge part of the revenue market, but it’s not insignificant and I’d like to see it happen eventually.
So far, the dominant sports betting companies are DraftKings and FanDuel, originally DFS companies. Did casinos make a mistake in not figuring out a way to delay their participation for a while?
No, those companies already had a customer base and a brand name. I think it was a wise decision for casinos to team up with those vendors.
Who are you rooting for? Eagles or Giants?
Are you kidding? I’m from North Jersey. I’ve been a Giants fans forever.
Any idea what the NFL season will look like?
I expect it to be a regular season, probably without fans in the stands. Hopefully by then, we’ll have a treatment or vaccine in place. Hope springs eternal, and I certainly am hopeful. But we have to consider our own health and other people’s health as well.
We’re suffering some bad times right now, but we’ll get back.
